Mandy Griffiths
“You don’t want to be the guy that messed up “Toy Story”.
This is one of the first things first-time feature film director Josh Cooley admits when I sat down with him and producer Mark Nielsen to celebrate the release of “Toy Story 4” for home viewing.
It might seem strange for a film about toys to have such high stakes, but when you’re talking a billion dollar enterprise and the founding franchise of Pixar, not to mention it’s pedestal place in both awards and households, one has sympathy for anyone willing to take on a story that had, in all purposes, completed its arc.
And now, after making $1 billion at the global box office and winning over audiences everywhere with its new direction, new themes, same magic, we talk living up to those expectations, the excitement behind the scenes at Pixar, whether a Communications degree is useful in the film-making world, and the fantabulous emancipation of one B0-Peep.
“Toy Story 4” is now available on Digital and on Blu-ray and DVD 8 October – great news for any household who has watched the train opening of “Toy Story 3” waaaay too many times (or that could just be me).
Mandy: Josh, this is your first feature film and you’ve been given “Toy Story” to direct …
Josh: Yeah, no pressure.
Mandy: No pressure at all. I’m sure people don’t have high expectations. How did you feel about stepping into this position?
Josh: Well, I’ve been at Pixar for sixteen years now and I think if I had just come on off the street or something I think I would have exploded.
Just knowing everybody that was there that I worked with [helped]. First of all, I was extremely honored, to answer your question. It was just a huge honor to be handed the keys to the kingdom in a way because “Toy Story“ means so much to us, to Pixar. The studio was basically founded on the first film and those characters and the stories are so important to us, you know?
They’re such great films and so to be asked was such a huge honor but it’s also kind of scary as well, just because you don’t want to be the guy that messed up “Toy Story”.
There was a lot of pressure that I think I probably put more on myself, but also a lot of pressure that everybody on the crew kind of put on themselves as well, in a great way. So we had people just really step up and they were really excited and inspired to go and make this the best movie it can be. I’m just absolutely thrilled with the way it turned out. I’m very, very happy.
Mandy: You should be! I recently read Creativity, Inc. by Pixar co-founder Ed Catmull and it was really fascinating. I was really interested in the Brains Trust and how that works and how they influence the story as it develops. Was the Brains Trust a part of the development of this film?
Josh: Yeah, it sure was. You know, that is a process that we have been leaning on for every film we’ve done at Pixar and we still continue to do that. You know, as filmmakers you can get so close to your own story that it becomes harder to see the problems and the issues and even where it’s succeeding in doing well.
So every four months or so we will put a rough draft version of the movie up in the theater at Pixar and we’ll invite the Brain Trust which is made up of other directors, sometimes it’s writers and sometimes it’s heads of story that are smart but they’re not close to it. They’re on their own projects.
So they have fresh eyes and ears… and then we spend a couple of hours with them after the movie has run and get their thoughts and notes and it really is incredibly helpful – and then we tear the whole thing apart, rewrite it and start building it up from the ground again and we do that over and over.
Mandy: So I guess when it’s your film that’s being analysed, is that an exciting day or is it a very nerve wracking day when everyone sees what you’ve done?
Josh: The answer is “yes” [laughs]. It’s exciting because you get a point where you’ve been working so hard to get it up and on screen and at the same time…the Brain Trust sessions are fantastic but it can be painful too, because the things that you thought were working maybe don’t work as well, which is sometimes hard to hear, but at the same time it’s all for the sake of the film and it’s all about the movie and you just can’t take it personally.
Mandy: I understand that you started as an intern, Josh, and Mark was one of your first managers? Is that right? Back in the day?
Josh: [Laughs] Yeah, he was.
Mark: Yeah. The first “Cars” movie, I was the manager of the story team and I was managing alongside Joe Ranft, who was our head of story and an absolute legend in animation. As the story had it, he had just a great eye for talent and he just brought in really incredible people onto that story team; people that have really gone on to grow and be successful out there in the business – and one of those people was Josh.
He had a recommendation from one of the people on the team and just a great portfolio and Joe brought him in as kind of a “story assistant”, kind of like shading in people’s boards and taking on some of the lower-level story work.
Josh: Yeah. This is back when we were drawing storyboards on paper still, so I was — Well, we call it “cleaning up drawings”. So the story artist would do a rough drawing and then I’d clean it up and make it nice and readable and color in, like the McQueen red, so you knew which one he wanted.
So I was technically the first story intern at Pixar but I learned so much form working with that team and from working with Joe. I just told myself “I cannot leave this place. I love it here and I love everything I’m learning about” and so I just tried to make myself as indispensable as possible.
And I just got a lot of dirt on Mark. I got as much dirt on him as possible and blackmailed him into this position.
Mandy: [Laughs] Are you surprised then Mark, that you’re standing here with Josh today talking about “Toy Story 4”? Obviously, it was pretty destined?
Mark: You know, yes and no. Josh has always been a really talented contributing member of story and “story is king”. That’s what we used to say. All of our films that have succeeded over the years have done so because the stories have been solid and that’s taken a lot of work and a lot of effort. I have seen Josh kind of grow through the ranks.
I have seen him take on not only story artist positions but head of story and then he became one of the writers on “Inside Out” when we were working on that film together.
I’ve seen Josh rising through the ranks over the years. So I’m not surprised to see where he is now, but this was my first job actually as a producer too. So it’s cool. It’s cool that the time came for us to both take on these new big roles on a film that is also just kind of so important to the studio. That made it extra special.
Josh: And I am not surprised to see Mark be a producer now because of all of the movies that we’ve worked on together and just seeing how he works with the crew. It’s a great, great pairing.
Mandy: And Mark, I understand you studied communications at university?
Mark: Yeah, that’s right.
Mandy: Is there a lot of crossover skills do you think to be a producer?
Mark: For sure, for sure. Yeah, journalism was my major and public relations specifically, and English was my minor and communicating and writing is something that’s core to producing – communication especially. It’s constant. It’s every second. You’re trying to unify the crew around the vision that the director has for the film and it’s a crew of 250 people at it’s peak. It’s made up of artists and technical folks and people of all sorts of personality types and traits.
So, absolutely. Even though I didn’t study film, I feel like what I studied in college and getting a degree in journalism and English probably was more helpful to me in my role of producing than perhaps even if I had gone to film school.
Mandy: There you go! Hope for all the communications graduates out there.
Mark: [Laughs] That’s right!
Mandy: And I loved that for this film Bo-Peep comes back in a very, very big way. What was the inspiration to bring her back in that role?
Josh: Well from day one of the thought of “Toy Story 4” Bo-Peep was always discussed as being a major part of this film. The code work internally for “Toy Story 4” was “Peep”.
Mandy: [Laughs]
Josh: She was always a big part of it. The thing that we realized is that in order for Woody, who has always been the main character of “Toy Story”, but in order for him to go through a major change, he has to be confronted with something that he can’t ignore and having Bo-Peep return in a way that he did not expect or think would even happen was the way to do that.
So we knew we needed to reinvent her in a way that was staying true to her character from the previous films, but also show that she has been through more life than he can ever imagine. It was really exciting to do that because everybody kind of jumped. Everybody was excited by that idea so much that we even had a group of artists at the studio, throughout all the different departments, kind of pull themselves together and call themselves “Team Bo” and they overlooked every aspect of her, from the writing down to what her dress looked like and down to how she was animated; how she would run across a room. That would be different from what she used to do before. So it was really great to have those extra eyes on that character just to make sure that we stayed true to who she is, but also pushed her in ways we didn’t think was possible.
Mandy: The first film was released in 1995, that’s generations of people who love this franchise, as I’m sure you’re all aware. Was it hard to convince the original voice actors, say Tom Hanks, and say “Come and do another one?”
Mark: You know, I don’t think so. They’ve got a love for these characters as well and so I would say, without fail, all of them enthusiastically signed up when they were given the chance, which is fantastic because some of these voices are kind of irreplaceable.
Josh: They are, yeah. So all I know is when we went to record them for the first time every single person just came in, ready to go, just beaming and I think they just love not only the movies but being associated with the movies. I know Annie Potts was so excited when she realized how major of a character she was again – and actually more than the other films!
She was always kind of secondary and tertiary but now she’s primary. She was thrilled to be able to embody that and the challenge of bringing her back in a different way was something we worked on that she was very happy with; and then just the way that character has lived on for 25 years and will continue to live on. She was just thrilled!
Mark: Even Laurie Metcalf that played Andy’s mom. She’s just an incredible actress, so talented, wasn’t sure if she would have the chance to be part of “Toy Story 4”, and when she was, she was thrilled.
Whether or not the “Toy Story” adventures will continue is TBC, but at least we can now all enjoy “Toy Story 4” on Digital, Blu-ray and DVD.
