Robyn Candyce
Captivated by American television since he was a child, filmmaker Des Doyle became intrigued by the technical aspect of the trade. Growing more titillated by the art of making a TV show, Doyle began researching the topic, and realized there wasn’t much information about running a network series in the USA. In order to solve this conundrum he made a film about it.
In his directorial debut “Showrunners: The Art of Running a TV Show,” Doyle introduces viewers to the world of those responsible for the day-to-day operations of an American TV series, also known as “showrunners”. Candidly displaying the ups and downs of this profession, the documentary gives an in-depth look at the process involved in overseeing the development, and progression of a television production from the point of view of the showrunners managing them.
Earlier this month, at New York Comic Con, Moviehole was able to catch up with Doyle, as well as with Co-Producer Ryan Patrick McGuffey for an interview. They talked about the life of a showrunner, the book, as well as famed showrunners Joss Whedon and Mike Kelly.
Why is this topic important to you?
Ryan: We’re fans.
Des: I’ve been watching American television my whole life. Some of my happiest moments have been spent watching American TV Shows; I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. I’ve always been fascinated with behind-the-scenes – how stuff gets made. It’s the reason I got into making films in the first place, combining those two things. You know, showing off a company that I’ve been reading about for a long time, and what they do there.
There was never enough information for me; I could never find the determination, the detail level that I kind of wanted. So, we tried to make a film. We tried to see if we could really pull back the curtain, really get the “go” to explain what it is exactly that a showrunner does. What goes into making a TV show; what goes into getting one on the air, and then trying to keep it on the air? You know, all the little dilemmas they can get in to along the way.
You have some pretty large names in this film – J.J. Abrams, Terrance Winter, Janet Tomaro – how did they become involved in this project? Did [the subjects] find out about the project and come to you? Did you go to them?
Des: It was different for everybody…we started four years ago. It took us four years to get the project across the finish line. When I came over originally, because I had come from Ireland -and because it was my first time directing – no one knew who I was. For that reason, to get the first two people on camera took quite a bit of time. Once we got one or two big names it was sort of a big game changer for us. Everything started coming together. We put together a sizzle reel, and we put that interest with industry here. So, it started to turn from us calling people [and hearing] “I have no idea who you are” to people saying “Yeah, I’ve seen that; I know about this.” By the end of things people were contacting us saying “Can we be in it?”
Was there a showrunner in the film whose work stood out more than others?
Ryan: I don’t know what I can say. I guess specifically – for obvious reasons – Joss Whedon. I mean, I don’t want to say too much, but it’s a fact he ran three shows for a year – which he talks about in the film – and for that reason alone he stands out head-and-shoulders, in that particular regard. To do one [show] is a herculean task, so to do three is insane. It’s insane…one was in its first season, [and] one was in its final season. He is an incredible example of someone who was able to creatively, and administratively tap into these different resources, and use his creativity and skills as a writer, and someone who has learned to be the administrator of a lot of people. He maintains good relationships with everyone he works with. I haven’t heard anyone say one bad thing about him, and that to me, it’s fascinating.
You [two], having an outside perspective – because [in the film] there were a couple of varying opinions on the subject – do you think that a showrunner can have a normal life?
Ryan: They can, but they often don’t.
Des: It is very challenging. James Duff, who did “The Closer” and [does] “Major Crimes,” he’s not in the finished film, but he is in the book…he sent an email to everyone he knows that said please don’t contact me for the next six months unless it’s for a funeral or a wedding because I don’t have the time to see anyone, I don’t have the time to talk to anyone.
I think that [showrunners] hope their friends will still be around for them for those 10 days they get off at the end of the year. It requires a huge amount of sacrifice. For families it’s even harder. Bill Prady who is in the film, co-created “The Big Bang Theory” and ran that for five years, stepped down from being a showrunner to save his marriage. He was literally living in Stage 24 on the Warner Brothers’ Lot. It’s extremely challenging for people when you have to spend so much time –
Ryan: I think Hart Hanson said though “anyone who wants to get out of the game, it’s like, yeah right you’re full of sh*t.” He has so much respect for Bill –
Des: Because he actually did it. He’s still a writer, and it’s still for the show, but he’s not the day-to-day showrunner anymore. Guys who are on long running shows, they try to make it a little easier for themselves, because there are so many writers and producers around them [that] they can lean on them more. If you’re in the first two to three years of a show – especially if you’re in the first year of a show – you’re never going to see daylight.
So I didn’t know this until just now [but] there’s a book! Can you tell me a little bit about the book? Plug it!
Des: It’s good. It’s really, really good. We got a five star review.
Ryan: It has pictures!
Des: It does. It has lots of pictures of showrunners. The book is kind of like an expanded addition of the movie. Unfortunatetly, because the movie is only 90 minutes long we weren’t able to include everybody in it that we wanted to, so we have some showrunners in the book that aren’t in the film, and vice versa. The thing that we introduced in the film, we go a little bit deeper in the book so if you watch the film and like it, go buy the book. You will love it.
So I saw that Mike Kelly was in the film, did you ask him what happened to the second season of “Revenge”? Also, on that note when a showrunner has a season that fails, because “Revenge” is still going –
Ryan: What happens when you’re Mike Kelly –
What happens when you’re Mike Kelly? Mike Kelly got lucky, right, because he got a third season, and a lot of fans were obviously really upset –
Ryan: But he’s not the showrunner [anymore].
He [wasn’t the] showrunner for the third season?
Ryan: No.
So, when you have a bad season you are no longer the showrunner.
Des: Well –
Ryan: I don’t know how much we can say.
Des: I think it’s unfair to say Mike left because they had a bad season.
Ryan: Because the first season was incredible.
Yeah, the first season was fantastic.
Des: Mike left because he wanted to make the show in a certain way, and ABC wouldn’t let him make it that way. He thought the show worked much better as 15 episodes, and 22 was killing him to do because they were turning story into higher race. The governments were modeled where “Revenge” was very much twist-reveal- twist-reveal-surprise.
Ryan: They were shooting at Huntington Beach which was a bit of a haul for him.
Des: Yeah there were a number of legitimate problems behind-the-scenes as well, but the big thing for him was just the story turn was too difficult to maintain on the 22. He asked repeatedly “Can we go to 15?” and they said “No.” That, tied in with some things they wanted to do creatively with the show that he wasn’t particularly happy with, he decided to leave. I can’t speak for him personally, but that has to be a very difficult decision for him to make because that’s your baby, you know? He put his heart and soul into that show for like three years at that point in time (between the writing and the original pilot).
He makes a point in the film, which is no one cares as much about their show as the person that creates it. He very much believes – I think all the guys believe – Kurt Sutter, I believe, talks a little bit about it as well. The passion, that hard work you put into it, that really comes across to an audience. Especially in the third season, I think people noticed very much that Mike Kelly wasn’t there anymore.
What should we know about showrunners as an audience watching it?
Des: I think anyone going to see the show, who is a fan of TV – both a casual fan, or someone who is interested in pursuing writing especially – we tried to make the film so that it works for both levels of audience. If you’re just a fan of a show, if you just have casual interest you’ll enjoy it. If you’re interested in pursuing a career as a showrunner you’ll absolutely enjoy it.
I’m still kind of surprised at how candid people were. I think people were candid to the point where I found it surprising that people were saying to us what they were saying to us. I think it would be a really interesting watch for anyone into television.
Ryan: My closing statement…I would say that this book chronicles the journey of 22 showrunners – and in the book several more. I think that the stories that are told here, the process, a lot of the mythos, and the methodology behind the writing lives on after shows are long gone. If you’re interested in writing (or working in the industry in this way) the information in this film will outlive the series. So, in 10 years TV will still be made this way – no matter what the platform is, content delivery platform – whether it’s on second screen, your phone, if it’s injected into your brain, someone is still going to have to write that. There is going to be a team of people writing that, because TV is only going to get more cinematic and more epic in scale. The information in this film will be relevant for a very long time.
“Showrunners: The Art of Making a TV Series” opens in the USA on October 31st, 2014. For more information about the film, visit www.showrunnersthemovie.com.
